Like the way the tree is incorporated in the design and the stop is simple but light and airy whils providing shelter
Posted Aug 20, 2009 9:08 PM by DebMitch
Posted Aug 20, 2009 11:08 PM by mlilia
simple, effective design. use of a tree would promote the idea of greener cities, combat co2 emissions. would it be spoilt by graffiti?
Posted Aug 21, 2009 6:08 AM by emma_kk
"would it be spoilt by graffiti?"
I suppose this could be asked of any of the bus stop designs on the site. It wouldn't necessarily have to be be spoiled by graffiti, the other side of the brick wall could even be a designated graffiti wall. Perhaps even some artistic graffiti could improve the design perhaps?:
Posted Aug 21, 2009 9:08 AM by matsheffield09
Your design is showing that tree who's boss!
Posted Aug 21, 2009 12:08 PM by yomama
Quick Question: How do you plan on accounting for the growth of the tree and maintain structural intergrity of the structure? Thanks
Posted Aug 21, 2009 4:08 PM by tradarch kc
tradarch, the steel clamp that is attached to the tree would have to be made in two parts that can be tightened/loosened with bolts. The timber beams would be fabricated to a size that could fit into the clamp, still with enough space to allow for slight movement (if you look at my main image, the part of the steel clamp that supports the timber beam protrudes out quite a distance, meaning the beam doesn't actually have to reach all the way to the tree trunk). This would allow room for very slight movement of the beams at the end nearest the tree. With a little maintenance once every year or two simply adjusting the bolts, I think that any structural pressure caused by tree growth would be relieved.
Posted Aug 21, 2009 4:08 PM by matsheffield09
well thought out design, one of the best on here!
Posted Aug 21, 2009 6:08 PM by jten92
Just a thought. The population of the Campus is 30.000 people. The location of the stop is at a very busy and pertinent area. The image supplied appears to hold ten people squeezed with an acute angle. (THinking of the weather). Increasing the possible capacity might significant help the merging of form and function.
Posted Aug 23, 2009 4:08 AM by oruchimaru
oruchimaru, thanks a lot for the comment and suggestion. The question of size is a valid one, however, it is one that could be asked of nearly all of the designs on the site. My design could quite easily be scaled up depending on its site (basically extending the beams, or increasing the angle between them). For shelter, If you look at my third image, you'll see that not only is there room under the main structure to stand, but actually quite a lot of space as the roof is extended backwards. Additionally, the tree would act as a natural shelter if it does begin raining! I think someone on the ideas section made a good comment about how shelter isn't the be all and end all for a bus stop, as many people will carry an umbrella if they see the weather will be bad.
Posted Aug 23, 2009 9:08 AM by matsheffield09
i always like to see a tree being planted, but if you plan on planting a tree to use in this way, you might be waiting a few decades for it to mature. to me the bus stop also feel a little claustrophobic. that's not jus the scale, but triangular spaces in general fel that way. images and materials are very good though.
Posted Aug 24, 2009 1:08 AM by kavbar
I realise that no design can wait decades for a tree to grow, thats why I specified a re-planted tree in my project description. I accept that triangular spaces may feel claustrophobic, thats why one side is left fully open and the other is made from a clear material (PVC). The triangular shape of the main stop was to emphasise the relationship of the of the tree with the rest of the structure. Thanks for the feedback
Posted Aug 24, 2009 8:08 AM by matsheffield09
Do you know of the term Greenwash? This project, among many others on this site, is a perfect example. Claiming to be sustainable by calling the design "GreenStop" but then constructing it from petroleum based PVC and requiring a replanted tree. That replanted tree would require removing concrete and asphalt in a 4-5 meter circle around the tree in order to create a proper hole to insert a tree large enough and accommodate its root structure. The concrete (high CO2 producing material) and asphalt (petroleum based) would have to be replaced. You can argue recycleability about the PVC and the concrete and asphalt being removed, but the asphalt and concrete only become aggregate, not their original material. So those are down-cycled. And the PVC not only requires lots of energy to recycle, it produces chlorine gas (a common WWI chemical weapon). So before claiming a design to be "Green" do some reasearch, and don't ever believe what the manufacturer claims, they Greenwash worse than anyone.
Posted Aug 24, 2009 2:08 PM by Ausdruck
Thanks for taking the time to show your opinion. I can see how you may have misunderstood my design aims, but I don't believe that I have intentionally tried to claim my design to be more 'green' or sustainable than it actually is. I can understand how the name GreenStop may have misled you into believing my shelter claims to be sustainable. The idea of using a tree started out as an aesthetical idea, and then developed as I liked the idea of it promoting more tree plantations that could possibly be used in design for the future.
The choice to use PVC was due to the fact that it is less brittle than glass and less likely to break, reducing maintenance. Glass could quite easily be used as an alternative. The concrete and asphalt that would need to be dug up wouldn't all need to be replaced either, surely it would be mostly replaced with soil for the trees roots? Some could be re-used as the hardcore layer on top of the soil too. I believe there is a more environmentally friendly concrete available too now (although I don't know if this is greenwash!) that could be used for the top layer of ground replacement. I feel that the use of a tree as part of design in an urban area would help to encourage more plantation in the future. However, I will now refer to my design simply as 'Stop', to avoid unintentional green-washing on my part. Feel free to add any more comment/debate please!
Posted Aug 24, 2009 4:08 PM by matsheffield09
i have never seen tree relocation on that scale before. it seems a little contradictory, claiming that it is a green initiative, yet the removal, transportation and replanting of each tree would require a lot of energy, and result in a lot of carbon emmissions if every stop in a city was built this way. not as green as you might imagine. you might want to consider looking for existing trees if you want to be truly green.
Posted Aug 24, 2009 6:08 PM by kavbar
kavbar, the link the tree moving site was simply to show that trees can be relocated, rather than me having to wait decades for my design to be possible! For one stop however, it wouldn't be any more detrimental (transport wise) than any other construction material. I accept that for for multiple stops being built the transport emmissions would start to rise substantially. The tree could inspire more designers to actually consider using existing trees in their work, but there isn't one on this particular site. As I mentioned above, my design wasn't pushed by a desire to be green, simply to provide an innovative approach to designing a bus stop (and promoting the use of public transport in the long run). Thanks a lot for the interest
Posted Aug 24, 2009 6:08 PM by matsheffield09
Beautiful graphics, and it would be great to incorporate a tree into the design. Like previous commenters, however, I have concerns about the practicality of the idea. (a) It depends on dedicated maintenance staff to "loosen the bolts" to allow for tree growth. Do you really trust the folks on the ground in SLC (or anywhere) to do this? (b) If I understand correctly, the structural integrity of the stop depends on the health of the tree. But I'm sure you've noticed that urban trees don't always succeed. What happens when the tree fails, right when I'm waiting for the bus? (c) Mature tree transplants are indeed possible. But have you priced any lately? For a tree of a caliper like you're showing, you're talking well over $10,000. For an urban situation, probably more. I just can't see UTA shelling that out for mere aesthetics.
All that said, I think you're really on to something. Why not incorporate a newly-planted tree or trees into the structure, while not requiring the trees to provide structural stability?
Posted Aug 25, 2009 1:08 AM by xhart
Thanks for the feedback. Firstly, I agree with the fact that having a tree incorporated into a design in such a way raises a few questions about maintenance, structure etc. In fact, a lot of the feedback I've had has basically been questions about trees and not even mentioning the design! a) I don't feel maintenance would too much of a difficult task. The steel clamp would be supported from the ground so when it is loosened there would be no movement. The support is removed afterwards, job done!
b) I can't see the tree simply failing and snapping one day without warning. A tree has more chance of being uprooted than it does failing structurally. If there were any problems arising such as rotting, it would be seen well in advance. c) I didn't really think about budget for this project, as there isn't one given in the brief (so creativity isn't limited). I agree with you wholly if it really is that much, I can't see UTA being wiling to spend that much. However, I have done a little research and one company quotes $175 per caliper inch of the tree (plus costs of planting etc.) I think at a push, it could rise to $4000.
Your comments about perhaps planting a new tree to use as part of the design are interesting, and it could be a fantastic idea to have a tree growing throughout the life-span of a piece of design. For my design proposal, however, I can't see it working. Take away the tree concept (a tree used as structure) from my design, and your left with quite an average design. The rest of the stop was purposefully left very simple, to emphasize the trees importance to the structure and design.
Posted Aug 25, 2009 7:08 AM by matsheffield09
I like your design, but it does have issues and you seem to just rebut all of the suggestions and questions given without taking into account that they are all really appropriate. The material choice of PVC lacks durability and isn't a very sustainable material. The wedge shape isn't ideal. The tree could fail without warning; just in the last month a jogger in Philadelphia had a tree suddenly fall on them and put them in a coma and another in Central Park had a large section of a tree fall on them and kill them, all within 3 days. So it happens. The tree would be very expensive to plant; on top of the debatable caliper cost there is also the cost of tearing out sidewalk and road, which, despite one of your responses, would need to be replaced. I think the concept is great, but you need to take some of this criticism as an asset, rather than fighting it. Its not like they are telling you its ugly or something. It's all helpful advice.
Posted Aug 25, 2009 1:08 PM by Blutdrache
I haven't particularly meant to 'fight' any critisism, I'm simply offering reasoning behind my design when it is questioned. When I take a project into a design review/crit, people question all aspects of the work that I present. I'm not dismissing their comments and refusing to accept them, I'm taking them on board, but at the same time trying to show the reasoning behind my design decisions. The triangular shape of my design was described as claustrophobic, I've taken that on board and explained why I chose that shape, and how I attempted to prevent it from feeling crowded. Someone described PVC as a bad material choice environmentally, I've accepted that (and again, explained my reasons behind it), and suggested that another material could be used instead. I really appreciate all comments and suggestions, whether they are positive or negative. Please don't feel I'm dismissing anyones opinions outright, I'm treating this as I would in a design crit, and trying to answer everyones comments/suggestions with the reasons behind my design.
Posted Aug 25, 2009 4:08 PM by matsheffield09
Good response, and I understand that's how you are treating it. In a crit situation, those answers work perfect. And it is important for everyone to know that none of these designs would probably be constructed exactly as shown because the critique process causes designs to evolve and improve (I'm not really referring that comment to you, because you seem to get this).
Posted Aug 25, 2009 8:08 PM by Blutdrache
The irony of this design is that affixing a steel clamp to a tree as has been done here would, under all circumstances, result in the death of the tree; not such a 'Green' stop after all. Even if it were possible to grow a tree under such conditions, its ever increasing size would cause serious problems in terms of the structural soundness of this shelter.
Posted Aug 27, 2009 2:08 AM by amcauslan
The tree must be the dominant of the composition in this case. The problem is that it doesn't feels to me like this. It looks like the bus stop has grabbed the tree with a pair of tongs. Great idea, but in my opinion could be greater. 3 stars from me.
Posted Aug 27, 2009 12:08 PM by CypukaT
Anytime you damage the root zone directly under the drip line of a mature tree, you KILL IT! Since the selection of trees that survive in urban situations can be quite limited. Another very serious problem is the haress chaffing against the bark. If the tree manages the shock of losing most of its roots, the rubbing action of the harness with eventually invite disease and kill it. Sorry to be a downer, but this is common knowledge in the horticulture world.
Posted Aug 27, 2009 1:08 PM by tradarch kc
Tree will destroy glass and bend frame in wind. Tree will also grow and be strangled by collar.
Posted Aug 27, 2009 5:08 PM by Whosthatguy
You have issues with trees don't you?
Posted Aug 28, 2009 1:08 PM by DLamb
Thanks for all the comments and feedback on trees, sorry I've not answered been away at a festival all weekend! CypukaT, thanks for your comment, the issue of the tree looking 'dominated' in the composition was one I considered when designing. I felt that the benefit of having the simple structure of the stop on show to be of more importance (appearance-wise).
In reply to the comments about the growth of the tree and the clamp, my comments above describe my thoughts of how these problems may be presented. DLamb, I'm no expert in horticulture but yes, it looks like I have issues with trees. Thanks for the feedback!
Posted Aug 31, 2009 1:08 AM by matsheffield09
Posted Aug 31, 2009 2:08 PM by rawanqubrosi
This does not promote the long-term health of the tree, much like tree grates. This should be a factor in 'green' designs.
Posted Sep 04, 2009 10:09 AM by o_seanan
a different design with fantastic renderings
Posted Sep 05, 2009 11:09 AM by tavakoli
For that span it would be a lot easier just to cantilever the roof from the wall. Could keep the aesthetic effect though.
Posted Sep 11, 2009 6:09 PM by firstname.lastname@example.org
The heart of my bus stop design is a re-planted tree at the roadside, which provides both the structure for the shelter and also a fitting symbol for the ‘GreenStop’ design. A steel clamp is securely fitted around the trees’ trunk, and it is this clamp which supports the two timber beams that run from the tree. The timber beams run to a brick wall that sits inside a steel frame, proudly displaying the simple structure of the shelter.
The roadside of the shelter is left open for easy access to the bus, and the clear PVC roof overhangs the timber beam at the opposite side to provide shelter further back behind the main stop. This roof is very slightly angled to the roadside so any rainwater can run into drains in the road. Bus timetables and next bus screens are placed on either side of a strengthened PVC ‘wall’ (power for this screen and the lighting in the shelter is provided by a row of solar panels on the roof). The use of a clear material for the enclosing wall, and the positioning of the stop and its seats provide a perfect view of oncoming traffic.
The use of the tree would provide the stop with its own unique identity, with the simple structure being supported (and openly displayed) by the tree.