How would the green roof retain water (primary purpose of a green roof), and stay green? How is the use of a material that requires large amounts of maintenance and replacement sustainable? Natural is not the same as sustainable. And your images don't match the glass you specify. Glazing with a 10% sunlight transmission is near black, and would create a dangerous place for people using the stop. On the plus side, I like the overall plan and form.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 1:07 AM by Blutdrache
Sorry if my previous comment seems harsh. I don't intend it that way. Just constructive criticism, that's all.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 4:07 AM by Blutdrache
I dont think it has to retain everything, i have seen ancient buildings in Norway with such construction and its definitely done in the same way. The glazing i mention is not dark at all, try to google for it and its been use in japan, and its not dark at all. This is the link, http://www.treehugger.com/files/2004/10/pvtv_exterior_b.php i Hope this helps and get betetr rating :)
Posted Jul 25, 2009 7:07 AM by nigelmaj
oh i forgot to mention bout the wood, yes the timber would be treated and stay as long as possible, im just stating the possibilities if things go wrong, thats all.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 7:07 AM by nigelmaj
Very unusual and elegent bus stop.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 7:07 AM by fatality
Blutdrache, i think green roof's main priority is to provide insulation, and also let me rephrase the retain bit, if it does overflow, it would flow onto the small garden by the side.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 7:07 AM by nigelmaj
I see what you are saying with the glazing. I was confused because in standard glazing specifications glass with a 10% transmittal is a very dark tint. As for the green roof, the amount of insulation that you would receive from the roof would undoubtedly be counteracted by the amount of glass, but really, in a bus stop it shouldn't matter much. I live in one of the coldest cities in the entire U.S. and our bus stops (when there is a shelter present) are little more than glass boxes, no hint of insulation. I'm not saying a green roof is a bad idea, just that you shouldn't defend it the same way a green roof on an office building would be defended. In my opinion, it offers an opportunity to showcase the technology and the concept more than anything because it is so close to the ground and visible to so many people.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 2:07 PM by Blutdrache
Wifi should not be optional.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 2:07 PM by Hobgoblin
Blutdrache - The amount of glasses wont counteract as it is a glaze that gives proper insulation to the shelter itself like how it is being used in Japan. It is not advertise widely yet but would hope to reach Europe soon. I understand bout the green roof, its my idea, we will see what the organizers would prefer.
Hobgoblin - I am saying its optional because it gives the organizer to choose their own preference. I do prefer it to be essential.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 2:07 PM by nigelmaj
Just a few points. Blutdrache is right, natural does not mean sustainable. tree bark and stones will not stay on a curved green roof because of gravity. incorporating a system that would hold loose pebbles and bark shavings in place would probably be too elaborate and expensive for a repeatable bus stop system. that's why green rooves are usually comprised of grass. the grass absorbs moisture controlling the flow of storm water, and grass roots bind the soil/base together. no point building a cheap green roof if it doesnt do anything, and no point having an expensive one if it costs the city too much. a grass roof is a noble gesture, but tree bark probably wont work here. the curve would require that the timber go through a process of glu-lamination, adding to the cost, incorporating unnatural adhesives that could not be burned as you suggest due to potentially toxic chemicals in the glue. the roof structure, being accessible, would need to be able to support 20-30 people on it at any given time, which is do-able given its arched form, but is a problem that you, as designer, introduced. it just creates problems for you and your client that don't need to be there, so making the roof accessible might need some justification. as i mentioned to someone else, the wifi thing is irrelevant. every design here could have it, so what? its not a design concern. that glass is extremely expensive, way beyond the budget of a city run transit company, but at least you're looking forward. also if it allows only 10% of light through it, it might be ok on the inside, but will appear dark from the outside, and will therefore be uninviting. It will be much like trying to see into a house through net curtains in the middle of the day, you wont see a thing. finally, there are a number of assumptions that natural, old-fashioned construction techniques cost less. they don't, and that's why they aren't used more, and this economic barrier is one of the main obstacles to the environmental movement. but it looks quite nice and it got me thinking, so thanks for that.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 5:07 PM by kavbar
kavbar - thanks for the comment, ill show you what im trying to experiment on for this design, its something i learnt during my holiday. I know you mention about gravity and glue being the problem to the roof design but looking at this methods, i beg to differ and would definitely try to convince you. If you look at the links i provided, http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/naijiao/?action=view¤t=DSC01439.jpg It is some traditional houses i saw. If you look at this roof detail http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/naijiao/?action=view¤t=DSC01435.jpg it somehow would work, tree barks, stones and soil/grass with some modification of course. It definitely can be pushed to a certain extend like this one. http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/naijiao/?action=view¤t=DSC01450.jpg If it does help for this old buildings, its something i would definitely want to try and cooperate into the design
The roof is not really for human access though.
About the glazing, this is the best picture i can find. http://www.gunda.co.za/solar/pv_tv_building_integrated.php It is not that bad and with its capability to project tv commercial on the glazing, it would definitely be inviting.
I did assume abit on the traditional method would be cheaper due to using just holes/poles and nails, lol. It is something that i would need to reconsider.
Thanks for the comment.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 6:07 PM by nigelmaj
the link does not seem to work, try this one. http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/naijiao/
look at the first 3 pictures
1] The roof detailing which has tree bark, stones and soil/grass
2] It can be pushed to that extent
3] Those are the houses i mentioned that uses this method, if it can be use to protect againts the elements in the past, with some modification, it would definitely work.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 6:07 PM by nigelmaj
i like the design, the only problems i have with it over all are, besides the interior of the arch, there is no protection from the weather which could become cumbersome if the inside of the arch was full of people and you have to stand outside. i don't know how hard integrating a simple canvas cover in front of the arch to cover the shown benches would be, but i feel something would be better then nothing imho.
Posted Jul 25, 2009 9:07 PM by milky
milky - integrating an external shading would definitely not be a problem, the design can definitely be modified, however, stay away from the canvas, it just takes the aesthetic feature away. :)
Posted Jul 25, 2009 9:07 PM by nigelmaj
I think its nice. Needs wheelchair accessibility.
Posted Jul 26, 2009 4:07 AM by Critique
Thanks, there is a tiny ramp but its not the best at all, it is more noticeable on the minimal design. Look at the second page.
Posted Jul 26, 2009 7:07 AM by nigelmaj
I like wood.
Posted Jul 30, 2009 1:07 AM by Hobgoblin
in terms of the environment, this would be harming too many trees.. it goes against the whole design. i <3 trees
Posted Jul 30, 2009 2:07 AM by mlilia
If it rains?
Posted Jul 30, 2009 3:07 AM by tradarch kc
there is always the planting programme, make one bus stop, plant 5 trees :). if it rains, you go into the bus stop, ill definitely incooperate some shading on the exterior that goes along the concept.
Posted Jul 30, 2009 7:07 AM by nigelmaj
The model looks particularly welcoming at night, the arched shape lends itself well to feature lighting. It will be interesting to see how the wood will age - the colour will dull but it would match any trees or plants in the surroundings well. The only thing needing addressing is passenger information, but otherwise a good design, 4*.
Posted Jul 30, 2009 11:07 AM by J Roberts
i have to congratulate you on the maturity of your response, one or two others have simply told me i was wrong, which was a little arrogant. just one thing to consider...unfortunately, in practise, just because you don't intend for the roof to accessed doesn't mean it wont be, so you have to consider that as architect. if not, and some drunken baffoon falls and injures himself you will be sued. but there are ways of dealing with that. thanks for the links too, they were interesting.
Posted Jul 30, 2009 2:07 PM by kavbar
Posted Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM by yomama
JRoberts- I didnt really mention about the bus info because to me its a necessity and all im showing is the bus design, however, because the glaze is capable of acting as a tv screen, it might be interesting to try and reflect the timetables there.
kavbar - thank you very much and it was nice talking to you. When you mention accesibility, i forgot to think about drunks. It is highly possible to modify the side to a higher angle but still instill the same concept.
yomama- isnt the glaze helpful enough? Well im not claustrophobic so i wouldnt know much, if it really is, ill modify in the future. thanks.
Posted Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM by nigelmaj
Sensible point about the projection of timetables. Something similar is being trialled on the London Underground.
Posted Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM by J Roberts
really? im not aware of that but hopefully they would start that after the remodelling of king cross.
Posted Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM by nigelmaj
Only about 50% of the interior space would be functional.
Posted Aug 20, 2009 2:08 PM by amackay
My cave is in the basement along with 90% of what my wife claims as junk.
Posted Aug 28, 2009 1:08 PM by DLamb
A bus stop is not just a structure but a shelter againts rain, snow etc. I want to design a sculptural yet functional bus stop with a distinctive feature for design inspiration to students, a place of delight. The curvature of the roof is to provide easy cleaning of snow, and as most of it would slide down, it decreases the amount of weight on the structure as well.
This is a sustainable structure that works with the environment, with PV-TV glazing integrated to provide 3.8 watts of electricity per square foot, which is above average of efficiency, to provide heating during the winter. The glazing also allows 10% of sunlight to penetrate through as that level of light transmission is optimal even during cloudy days whilst protecting againts excessive solar gain and ultraviolet ray. The glazing also provides good thermal insulation for the bus stop. The curve roof is fitted with green roof to provide the necessary insulation during winter as well. The green roof is layered with tree bark, stones and soil instead of the coventional method, just like how it is done in the past, cheap and functional.
The sturdy structure would be made from sustainable timber, and if broken, its easily replaceable and the broken piece can be use as fire woods or process into wood dust for building insulation. Although its sturdy, it is also portable as it is designed to be easily installed and un-installed to be loaded onto a lorry. It is made up from many elements which is being stuck together with polls using traditional methods to save cost. It can be a minimal structure if necessary.
Wifi is optional.
Hope you all enjoy my design.